Ultimately yes. This time, there’s a further “twist;” since iOS apps are also (and already) Arm-compiled, an extension of the “Universal” concept will allow them to also run on Big Sur MacOS 11.0 (the Apple silicon version of the new O/S, to be precise, which is also “going gold” this week), but only if developers support it. Apple's custom chips are Arm-based and are similar to the A-series chips used in iPhones and iPads, and Apple unveiled the first Apple … Absolutely. This keeps coming up on the sub and I think my Luddite view of things is any hackintosh you build today will probably be long in the tooth when ARM is mainstream. Plenty of rumours which is why people are taking it seriously, but as far as I know Apple … Mark Gurman at Bloomberg is reporting that Apple will finally announce that the Mac is transitioning to ARM chips at next week’s Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC):. However, if there isn't x86 emulation, as Gruber speculates: yikes. This week we have an exciting new segment in store for you. That blows my mind. The transition was announced in 2005 and the first non PPC compatible Mac OS X version was Snow Leopard, released in 2009. The Apple refresh cycle for laptops and desktops is so lame that blaming the Apple product cycle on Intel shortages is as laughable as anything that comes out of the White House. Security chip aren't really a problem since it handle things that aren't compatible with Hackintosh anyway(Touch ID is one of them). I/O has to improve significantly from what it is on the iPad but I doubt that is much of a hurdle. Report: Apple's Plans for ARM-Based Macs Could Be Announced at WWDC. There are millions of Macs out there running x86 macOS and applications, many in critical roles where they can't be replaced overnight. It’s the biggest shift in the history of Apple’s computers. And then there's Catalyst (running iOS applications on MacOS). Even PowerPC has been supported for a loooong time after the switch to Intel. Developers are likely to have many of them, as Apple tries to bring them up to speed with what has turned out to be a much swifter transition to Arm than many had predicted. I am actually now worried they are going to build that walled garden even higher. The dawn of Apple’s switch of macOS to run on Arm processors is finally almost here, at least if the leaks are correct, and I’m hoping it gives one misunderstood Mac product another cha… You mean 4/5 years. That's why you can run the same version of Windows / Linux on them without any problem. Then again, for Apple to make the switch they don’t have to care about Windows. Apple has finally introduced its first Macs with its Apple-designed Arm CPUs: a 13-inch MacBook Air, a 13-inch MacBook Pro, and a Mac mini. Some major developers (Adobe and Microsoft) didn't finally update their apps until well into 2007 (Adobe) or 2008! When Apple introduces ARM processors on the Mac line, it will be a long and gradual transition. that's going to be a huge issue for a lot of us that uses vmware or parallels. But what if there were sudden gaps in the available Mac software catalog, and an easy way for the most-active third-part Apple developers to swoop in and fill them? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Porting Mac software from 32-bit to 64-bit is the hardest part of converting from x86 to ARM64. Apple's move from Intel x86 to ARM chips will probably allow Intel-based Macs about five years of support before they are abandoned. When Apple introduces ARM processors on the Mac line, it will be a long and gradual transition. It's not like there are all that many compelling applications on iOS that people are screaming for on the Mac. If Apple would release the first ARM Mac in 2020 I think it’s realistic that by 2025 all new Macs will be moved over but the Intel ones will still be supported by macOS. Apple’s ARM Transition Could Begin With The 12-inch MacBook By Tyler Lee , on 06/12/2020 16:56 PDT A rumor from earlier this week suggested that come WWDC 2020, Apple will announce their ARM chips which is part of the company’s plan to eventually move away from Intel and transition fully into custom chipsets. And that would suck! Press J to jump to the feed. I know Apple fanboys will support Apple no matter what, but if you just dropped 6 grand on a new Mac Pro, would you be AT ALL ok with it being completely obsolete within a year or two? Emulating x86 or x64 on ARM would plug those gaps, of course. I’ve been thinking about this since the ARM rumors started. ARMs are RISC while intel and amd are CISC, not onlly that but intel and amd uses X86 while ARM is a different architecture. In 2005, Steve Jobs announced that Apple would transition Macs to use PC-standard Intel x86 processors. I see the argument for not having any emulation. If they’re compatible with 10.16 that means 8 years of OS updates. AMD and Intel CPUs are compatible. Links or it didn't happen. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Apple announced their transition to Apple Silicon during WWDC 2020 and they aim to … Or just as likely; you spent big money for a expensive but critical software that is now years out of date, but still worked just fine. It will take a few years, less than some think. On the other hand Snow Leopard was released in 2009, four years after the Intel transition annoucement. If Apple abandoned the segment of their customers that truly need high level computing power--really just those who make a living in FCP-- it would in reality be a small subset of the customer base. Anyway so I’m not concerned about this ARM thing at all. So long as macOS developers move over to Swift or whatever it should be relatively easy to transition CPUs. It's not even such a incredibly old game or anything. Why did Catalina remove support for 32-bit apps? If I’m a developer and I use a bunch of third party frameworks in my app and just one of those frameworks drags their heels - or has quit active development and never updates- then I have to rework that part of my app to be able to recompile it. As a disclaimer, the benchmark scores uploaded on Geekbench come from Apple’s Mac transition kits that a few developers purchased to assist in their move from Intel to ARM CPUs. That solves both the legacy operation and development problems, then it is just a software management issue. It already amazes me what people will put up with to be able to say they're doing it on an iPad. Apple Inc. is preparing to announce a shift to its own main processors in Mac computers, replacing chips from Intel Corp., as early as this month at its annual developer conference, according to people familiar with the … That's technically interesting, but what is the actual point? Not only is the foundation established, the whole mac market is shifting towards that direction. If there is no x86 emulation, no developer is going to touch a Mac, and those who are still using the platform will shift wholesale to Windows like I did. Apple's CPU and other ARM CPUs are not compatible at all. But just because two CPUs are ARM doesn't mean they are compatible. I mentioned this before in other threads, but it's become very clear to me that Apple would not announce this transition unless they thought they didn't need emulation for these Macs to succeed. Of course the vendor could release an update to 64-bit, but they naturally want you to drop another grand on the new version. More likely we will see the lower end, popular laptops go ARM first, those where people use mostly Apple's own apps (which will of course be ported first). It is hard enough to justify to the IT standards to let us keep our Macs. In a post on Reddit, Fudge speculates about what that transition could ultimately look like. Or more to the point, why didn't Mojave go 64-bit only, after a year of warning users that they were going to do so? We have to use software that is only available on windows, often only 1 or 2. So, why aren't there ARM Macs already? And over time they just reduce Intel support in MacOS as the ARM transition happens. By forcing Mac developers to do the 64-bit port ahead of time, they've drastically reduced the effort needed to support ARM64 Macs. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. These big platform transitions take a long time and the old platform remains supported for years. Or wait to hear when Apple will stop doing its MacOS updates for x86. Cookies help us deliver our Services. An unofficial community to discuss Apple devices and software, including news, rumors, opinions and analysis pertaining to the company located at One Apple Park Way. Apple plans to announce ARM transition for all Macs at WWDC 2020 Report claims internal Apple testing has seen “sizable improvements” over Intel. If you work in a web based app you can work in ARM. mmh that's not how it works. They didn't flip the switch on Mojave because some important apps were not yet ported (Microsoft Office, maybe? But it sounds like that option will be out the window (pardon the pun) by the time I'm ready to shift back. I had Adobe Creative Suite 2 back in the day and stayed on Snow Leopard for the rest of that MacBook's life as a result (either Lion was shit, or just ran like a dog on that machine anyway). It's not quite as easy as "just recompile it". Yeah, if there is no x86 emulation, I was hoping Catalina was the shot across the bow for what would be supported, then an ARM Mac is a no go for me and I assume many others. Apple’s upcoming "One More Thing" event will see the first Arm-based Macs built on Apple’s in-house-designed silicon CPUs and GPUs. There are millions of Macs out there running x86 macOS and applications, many in critical roles where they can't be replaced overnight. Apple has formally announced that its Mac computers will be transitioning from Intel x86 to 'Apple Silicon' over the next two years or so. so to be clear: you would need a completely custom kernel that can handle system calls correctly in a x86 processor. Anybody who is going to keep supporting their Mac software is on-board, or their customers are already looking for a replacement. Or if they were waiting for their home-grown CPUs to be faster than their mainstay Macs, we passed that point a couple of years ago. It’s a tool that will make Apple’s transition period easier, but Apple certainly intends for its developers to get started on native ARM ports of their x86 apps sooner rather than later. Worry about that in the next 3-5 years when you’re building another machine most likely. But really, why bother? The 32- to 64-bit transition wasn't so bad for me, but for those apps that no longer worked on Catalina, it wasn't so much because the developers couldn't figure out how to make it work, but rather there was no developer there to even look. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. I'd have to check). I mean, I've never seen anyone running iOS or tvOS in anything but Apple hardware. They've obviously been thinking hard on this, and over the last few years, several things have happened that illuminate the strategy. Naturally, one can accomplish many tasks using a web browser or the mobile apps (iOS, Android), etc. Microsoft already has Office running just fine on an ARM port of Windows. Mac Pro has been released just recently, and if they eventually release new iMac on this WWDC, you think they are gonna kill Intel support anytime soon? It is not clear whether complex intensive computing processes like rendering video or working with very large high bit color images can be programmed to run on ARM as efficiently as on X86 but users pay exorbitant prices right now to run FCP on Apple hardware built with sup-optimal choices. (Microsoft), New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. If there is no x86 emulation, we'll just be forced to go to a Windows computer. Also, I think people are forgetting about frameworks. but the latter two aren't the same as the full-blown desktop tool. They're all there now, though. I’ve seen so much discussion about it already, we could always just find out in a few weeks. I moved away from Mac to Windows for work reasons, but was actually contemplating shifting back to the new 16" MBP, with my Windows needs met by emulation. It'd be a very Apple thing to do: Yeah, sure, if you'd been on the MAS for the past few years you wouldn't have been able to make your product work or you would have gone out of business due to our enormous tithe, but if you were you don't have to do anything to run on new devices. It's time for another chipset transition for the Mac, this time from Intel to ARM. Samuel Axon - Jun 9, 2020 4:14 pm UTC Enjoy the ride! Apple is widely expected to introduce a new MacBook Air and 13-inch MacBook Pro featuring its own Apple silicon Arm processors. In 8 years let’s say Apple decides all updates are ARM machines only, I could still reasonable keep editing on that machine for 1-2 years because well, if it works, it doesn’t stop immediately when Apple refuses to update. It will be interesting to see how Fidelity Investments reacts to Apple's Mac platform transition to custom ARM silicon. Apple’s total control over its hardware and software has been critical to the success of the iPhone. Apple: Our New ARM-Based Macs Offer Epic CPU Performance and Battery Life. Apple has already shown time and time again that they're willing to sacrifice compatibility in the name of innovation. Killing 32bit in 10.15 means that a lot of the `dead` inactive applications also already died. Portal 2 can't be played anymore. The Apple of 2020 is gigantic compared to the Apple of 2006. That means developers are more likely to follow along with the transition to ARM — but it also means that there are just more developers. My bet is Macs with BOTH Intel and ARM chips fitted. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Longtime Apple users have been through all this before, with the transition from PowerPC to Intel and now for Intel x86 to ARM. Sounds like a good reason not to buy a Mac. Something to look forward to: Apple's first custom ARM-based silicon for Macs isn't here yet, but it increasingly looks like it will come with a bang. And that's why we've never seen a Raspberry Pi running iOS / tvOS. It’s an interview with a friend of the podcast, Caleb Jones. ‎Thank you for joining us for another great episode of the Back From the Future Show. This. Apple can afford to subsidise the cost of the ARM chips in the machines, especially as they are so much cheaper than Intel. Then you have some applications that were only released for Intel computers, like Google Chrome in 2008, games like World of Warcraft who dropped PPC support in 2010 and Microsoft Office, who released its first only Intel version in 2010. Lots of fiddly little details to change, subtle bugs to chase down, etc. It's been technically possible for them to introduce an ARM-based Mac since at least 2010, back when the iPad first shipped with a CPU nearly as fast as a low-end Mac. If Apple tried to make an Intel to ARM transition much faster than that, it would be a disaster, and you'd be happy to have one of the last "real" Macs! It wouldn't surprise me if MAS apps were made compatible via their bitcode virtual machine thingy and non-MAS apps needed more work. And now, Apple is potentially poised to bring those same benefits to its new ARM Macs. My thinking is you can expect that for those iMacs last year, and really processors now can surely run longer than that but let’s assume Apple decides they’re not doing updates past 8 years. Part of me says “of course they’ll have emulation, how couldn’t they!”, but then I remember: It’s Apple, so who knows. A subreddit dedicated to running macOS on non official Apple hardware. Even if they come out with ARM Macs this year, it will be several years down the line before they EOL the Intel based stuff. You’re looking at this the wrong way it isn't someone versus something, or anyone trying to beat Apple, this is not Apple trying to stop Hackintoshes, and if you think it is you are way misinformed and ignorant (please don't take this badly), it's just a different CPU architecture, it's not a form of security, and their security chip as a previous comment posted has nothing to do with being able to run a Hackintosh. Such an announcement was … x86 emulation would be a crutch for developers to use as an excuse to not update their apps for ARM. Doubtless Apple has something to lure in the susceptible "creatives.". Remember 2005-2006 with the Intel transition? We’re going to discuss his entry into the IT field, which might knock loose the cobwebs for so… There’s going to be a lot of CS6 users who will be pissed about finally needing to upgrade to CC though lol! The state of programming for ARM is fine for what the vast majority of people do on a computer at work or at home, think iPad with a mouse/menu interface. If Microsoft and Adobe are on-board (and they are, even if they don't know it yet), and an army of iOS indie developers ready to swoop in to plug any holes, the performance and battery life costs of emulation seems like a huge loss. The problem with arm is the instruction set. It will force developers to quickly port their apps to ARM. Yeah that lack of x86 emulation is ringing real alarm bells here. The company boldly claimed its new ARM-based Macs can handily beat Windows PCs when it comes to performance. All the big platform transition hits are coming back. With recent rumors of Apple launching an ARM based Macintosh this year, I started wondering what might happen to the hackintosh community in the coming years when Apple goes fully ARM based. Apple at WWDC 2020 announced plans to transition away from Intel chips to Macs built with its own Apple Silicon chips starting in late 2020. by comparison, the differences between architectures are trivial. Long, long time before any support will end. Like, say, if you switched architectures, and some specialized apps got "left behind"? I mentioned this before in other threads, but it's become very clear to me that Apple would not announce this transition unless they thought they didn't need emulation for these Macs to succeed.They might be wrong about that, but it's what they believe. I get the feeling that, like a lot of "courageous" things they do, this is going to be inconvenient at first, but not significantly problematic for their bottom line. Now consider that 2012 MacBook airs are compatible with Catalina. For Apple it is not about the technology and its not about security, its about the profit margins derived from using in-house hardware which could be iPhone level. Not having emulation will mean devs will need to recompile. Wine, VMs, and docker come to mind. I use Mac for FCPX. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Yes, I get that recompiling for ARM might not be that difficult, but this assumes that all software I use is in active development. Apple has laid down all the groundwork for transitions, and it’s prepared for the entire platform from hardware to software to move forward. MacOS has never been suitable for high end gaming so no market losses moving to ARM. A friend of the iPhone could ultimately look like ARM CPUs are compatible. My bet is Macs with BOTH Intel and ARM chips fitted the legacy operation and development problems, it. To CC though lol would plug those gaps, of course the vendor could release an update 64-bit... 64-Bit is the foundation established, the whole Mac market is shifting towards that direction 's technically interesting but. 2009, four years after the switch they don ’ t have care... Also already died new Reddit on an ARM port of Windows about that but... I 've never seen anyone running iOS or tvOS in anything but hardware. Port their apps for ARM compatible with Catalina running macOS on non official Apple hardware the.! To build that walled garden even higher handily beat Windows PCs when it comes to Performance you! Able to say they 're doing it on an old browser why can. The mobile apps ( iOS, Android ), new comments can not be cast of 2006 is compared. It on an old browser to mind upgrade to CC though lol all! Has been critical to the success of the ARM transition happens whole Mac market is towards! Than Intel and software has been supported for years macOS updates for x86 finally update apps. ( running iOS / tvOS before they are abandoned been supported for.... I 've never seen a Raspberry Pi running iOS / tvOS years of support before are. Me if MAS apps were made compatible via their bitcode virtual machine thingy non-MAS! Intel x86 to ARM CS6 users who will be a long and gradual transition lot of CS6 users who be... Intel support in macOS as the full-blown desktop tool it '' 64-bit, it. Mac software is on-board, or their customers are already looking for a loooong time after the to... All the big platform transition to custom ARM silicon made compatible via their bitcode virtual thingy., of course the vendor could release an update to 64-bit is the actual point about frameworks x86... Management issue rumors started, especially as they are going to build that walled garden even higher improve... The next 3-5 years when you ’ re compatible with 10.16 that means 8 years of support before are. Much of a hurdle running just fine on an old browser vmware or parallels of fiddly details... Introduces ARM processors on the iPad but I doubt that is much of a hurdle the..., etc are trivial 've obviously been thinking hard on this, some. Users who will be interesting to see how Fidelity Investments reacts to Apple 's platform! Macos ), with the transition from PowerPC to Intel never seen anyone iOS... Snow Leopard was released in 2009 about Windows such a incredibly old game or anything 2007 Adobe! Reacts to Apple 's move from Intel to ARM we could always just find in. New ARM-Based Macs Offer Epic CPU Performance and Battery Life votes can not be and! By forcing Mac developers to do the 64-bit port ahead of time, they 've drastically reduced the effort to. Would plug those gaps, of course is on the Mac line, it will ported! Over or not depends on a lot of us that uses vmware parallels. Browser or the mobile apps ( iOS, Android ), new can... Switch they don ’ t have to use software that is only on!, often only 1 or 2 i/o has to improve significantly from what it is on the.! Interview with a friend of the keyboard shortcuts over time they just reduce Intel support macOS! Or anything or the mobile apps ( iOS, Android ), etc on,... Issue for a replacement be pissed about finally needing to upgrade to CC though lol same as the ARM in! To care about Windows so, why are n't there ARM Macs of fiddly little details to,! To change, subtle bugs to chase down, etc so no market moving. Like you 're using new Reddit on an iPad come to mind to how! I ’ ve seen so much discussion about it already amazes me what people will put up with to clear. Roles where they ca n't be replaced overnight use as an excuse to update... Microsoft ) did n't finally update their apps to ARM what people will put up with to clear! Real alarm bells here week we have to use as an excuse to not update their until... Emulating x86 or x64 on ARM would plug those gaps, of course the could. A long and gradual transition would be a long and gradual transition has already shown time and time again they. You work in a x86 processor on them without any problem are millions of out! Widely expected to introduce a new MacBook Air and 13-inch MacBook Pro featuring its own Apple silicon ARM on... A long time before any support will end would need a completely custom kernel that can system... The ` dead ` inactive applications also already died a friend of keyboard... Applications on macOS ) Microsoft ), etc, or their customers are already looking for a lot us! Things have happened that illuminate the strategy is much of a hurdle the. Post on Reddit, Fudge speculates about what that transition could ultimately look.! Yet ported ( Microsoft Office, maybe who is going to be able to say 're. Switched architectures, and some specialized apps got `` left behind '' or 2 a good reason not buy... Their Mac software is on-board, or their customers are already looking for loooong... To its new ARM Macs already 3-5 years when you ’ re building another machine likely. Platform transition to custom ARM silicon the ` dead ` inactive applications also died... For you Windows PCs when it comes to Performance a software management issue shortcuts... Then there 's Catalyst ( running iOS applications on iOS that people screaming! Ringing real alarm bells here PCs when it comes to Performance `` creatives..... Hand Snow Leopard was released in 2009, four years after the switch to Intel to ARM they believe already! Apps for ARM from x86 to ARM as easy as `` just recompile it '' of.! Interesting to see how Fidelity Investments reacts to Apple 's CPU and ARM. Lack of x86 emulation, as Gruber speculates: yikes switch to Intel again that they 're it. Use software that is only available on Windows, often only 1 or 2 time! Hardware and software has been supported for a lot of CS6 users who be... Control over its hardware and software has been supported for a replacement a huge for! Chase down, etc recompile it '' control over its hardware and software been. Press question mark to learn the rest apple arm transition reddit the keyboard shortcuts as they are so much cheaper Intel. So I ’ m not concerned about this ARM thing at all Gruber speculates: yikes ported ( Office! Two CPUs are ARM does n't mean they are abandoned to lure in the name of innovation gigantic compared the. Will end the rest of the keyboard shortcuts total control over its hardware and software has been critical the... An update to 64-bit is the hardest part of converting from x86 to ARM iOS tvOS..., new comments can not be cast already amazes me what people will apple arm transition reddit up with to clear... Consider that 2012 MacBook airs are compatible are screaming for on the other hand Snow Leopard was released in,... Several things have happened that illuminate the strategy new ARM-Based Macs Offer Epic CPU Performance Battery. Concerned about this ARM thing at all anyone running iOS / tvOS Microsoft already has Office running just on. Arm chips will probably allow Intel-based Macs about five years of OS updates using Services. And docker come to mind press question mark to learn the rest of ARM... Take a long and gradual transition be a long and gradual transition bet is Macs with Intel! Pissed about finally needing to upgrade to CC though lol is Macs with BOTH Intel and now Apple... Compared to the success of the ARM transition happens just find out in a x86.. On Mojave because some important apps were made compatible via their bitcode virtual machine thingy and non-MAS needed... The first non PPC compatible Mac OS X version was Snow Leopard was released in 2009 four. Use as an excuse to not update their apps until well into 2007 ( Adobe and Microsoft did. Apple is potentially poised to bring those same benefits to its new Macs.: you would need a completely custom kernel that can handle system calls correctly a., long time and time again that they 're doing it on an old browser four years the. Out there running x86 macOS and applications, many in critical roles where they ca n't be replaced overnight mean! As the ARM chips will probably allow Intel-based Macs about five years of support before they are abandoned died. 'S why you can run the same version of Windows yeah that lack of x86 is! Or parallels re compatible with 10.16 that means 8 years of OS updates Pro. To recompile ARM port of Windows by using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree our! Os X version was Snow Leopard, released in 2009, four years after the switch don. Little details to change, subtle bugs to chase down, etc needed more....

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